Comments on: To Veil or Not to Veil, That Is the Liberty

By: The Culture of Death « Mary Victrix

The Culture of Death « Mary Victrix — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:05:15 +0000

[...] The arts contribute to the moral environment in which we live. Culture is the product of people and their particular mindsets. But culture is also contributes to the moral environment. It is is the moral and psychological air we breathe. I have long thought that a Catholic and chivalrous aesthetic it vital to the restoration of Christian sanity; hence, for example, my prudential support of the use of chapel veils. [...]

By: Gela

Gela — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:57:20 +0000

I think that submission to God’s will is unitive. It is uniting your will to His and letting go of self (decrease) in order for God to increase in you.
As for the sinners, the plain and simple fact is that we are all sinners, the only people that never sinned are Our Lord and Our Lady. Adam and Eve fell and the rest of us fall daily- it is our human nature. We must do our best to avoid sin, but we will all fail. Changing the definition of sin distorts sin, and makes it harder to recognize, which ultimately keeps us from growing closer to God. There is NO beauty in sin, the beauty is in reconcilliation. Sin is ugly because it hurts us and it hurts God. Most important, sin separates us from God who is mercy and love. His mercy is mind-blowing and beautiful.

By: Another Other

Another Other — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:52:10 +0000

How interesting, I have a veil and I wear it at the latin Mass. I have had some interesting conversations with my friends concerning the veil. They are so open to many things the church recommends but thier reaction to the veil was one of no way no how. Very emotional. I have thought sometime about it and I wonder if it is a “submissive ” thing. I was quite interested in the comment from Gela and how she feels about wearing her veil. I don’t feel as it is a submissive posture as much as a unitive act. I wear mine to unite to my Lord and My king. It is to set me aside for Our Lord. It helps me keep focused and on task. I want to wear it more but sometimes I am distracted by being the only one or I’m counting others wearing the veil, silly things like that.

By: robertpaul

robertpaul — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:14:21 +0000

Dear Sir

It is all very interesting and at the end of the day it all rests with beliefs, values and behaviours.

I am a little concerned with the concept of sin and that your congregation and therefore all human beings or at least catholics, are a motly group of sinners. I feel that is a tad unjust. Surely, whether chatholic or others, first of all we are all doing our best to be at our best, whatever that may be. From time to time we may break the rules. To see us as foremost sinners may just possibly a good reason why congregations are falling drastically.

Motly? Nature is incredibly diverse and that is it beauty and its resiliance. No Sir, your congregation are the most beautiful and incredible creation of God or nature.

If you can reinvent the meaning of sin you might just see the beauty. Then you might find the answer to other troubling daily problems alittle more in line with the original values of Jesus.

The force be with you.

By: ninepoundhammer

ninepoundhammer — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:31:00 +0000

I’m Reformed Presbyterian, so I reckon you can take my comments for what they are worth. My wife wears a headcovering in worship (and public Bible study, for that matter) and, like one of the previous commenters, is the only one in our congregation who does so (for now?).

Our reading of I Corinthians 11 seems to make it clear that the veil/ covering is to be a sign of authority by a woman’s husband for public worship. The discussion by Paul is in universal terms regarding the God-to-man/ Man-to-woman relationship and not merely local customs. (After all, if that were the issue, methinks the Apostle would have merely said, ‘Follow the local custom’ similar to his discussion of eating foods sacrificed to idols.)

I agree that the Church should not quibble over the non-essentials; we do not, therefore make a big production of my wife covering her head. However, it has not gone unnoticed and has caused fruitful discussion–not the least of which has been in the overarching area of the man’s headship over the wife.

As with much of Christianity, it is a heart issue and we musn’t let ourselves slip into a Pharisaical legalism.

By: Gela

Gela — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:40:50 +0000

I have recently started to veil when I am in the house of our Lord.
I prayed on this for a long time, and felt called. It was hard, as I am the only one in my parish, but I do think it is right for me. These are a couple of the ‘reasons’ I wear it.
First, it is a reminder of obedience and submission to God and to my state in life. I wear it partly to remind myself to pray for greater obedience and submission when I am in Our Lord’s presence.
Also, in almost all images of Our Lady, even from recent apparitions, she has her head covered. If the Immaculate Conception covers her head for respect and obedience to God (it is mentioned in the bible several times, and she is always in His presence now), than a sinner like me can only be helped by imitating her.
I do not wear it because I think I am holy, I wear it because I hope to be holy someday, and I believe this devotion will help me.
I know that it isn’t for everyone, but hopefully this will give one perspective.

By: frangelo

frangelo — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:21:06 +0000

Thanks to both of you.

By: Jennifer A.

Jennifer A. — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:26:27 +0000

This is refreshing! I, too, at one point wanted SOMEONE in the Church to make things black and white. Let’s face it … black and white is so much easier. You know what to do and not to do and there’s no room to discern on your own … and thus maybe make a wrong decision!
But over the last ten years or so, I have come to change my mind on this. I see some of this ‘need’ for so much black and white as really a fear … a fear of failing … a fear of sinning. Fear, of course, is not of God. Granted, we should not AIM to sin and we need to aim for that holy perfection but we must be realistic … we ain’t gonna get there in this life!!
Now, in saying that, there is MUCH black and white in our Church as has been said on this blog before. For instance, the Church is quite black and white about Mass attendance each week. Yet, the Church has gotten wimpy on some things it should be more bold on … abc, for instance. There are many things, however, in which I feel are just not so black and white. Like it or not, we are called to discern them individually. Also, we are on different parts of our journey and there are some things that I accepted a few years ago that now I can no longer accept … the Lord has led me to a different spot that I wouldn’t have understood a few years back. We must be patient with one another because we all have areas such as these and we are all still growing spiritually … we all eat some words from our past, I’m quite sure.
As for the gray areas that must be individually discerned, I can think of a couple of examples. For instance, I know people who say they’d never own a tv or computer because of the smut on both … Satan is surely alive and well in these platforms. But, God is alive and well on these platforms as well and we must seek Him! So, I do not fear the computer or t.v. …. I must discern. Yet, there are those who may severely struggle with, say, pornography. In that case, get the computer out of the house if that’s the only way you can escape that temptation. But, don’t insist that it must be that way for everyone because some of us really have no struggle with pornography … we have other struggles, mind you.
The same is true for genres of music … I know there are some that say “NO” to entire genres of music. Now, if a certain genre causes you to have impure thoughts and are very distracting … then, yes, you need to avoid that genre. But, many people do NOT have that struggle and are very capapble of discerning the music for content and perhaps the groups singing, or whatever. It’s not a struggle … there is really nothing intrinsically evil or holy about classical music as a genre, bluegrass/country as a genre, opera or rock-n-roll. Same with instruments … they just carry a unique sound. I know some musical purists who would NEVER allow for an electric keyboard … I say there’s a place for it! There’s nothing intrinscially BAD about an electric keyboard! I wouldn’t want to hear a Debussy piano concerto on anything but a grand piano … but that’s my personal taste. Period.
So … as for the head coverings … I, too, have gotten into debates on this and you’re right, Father Angelo, there’s no truly right or wrong answer. We all see that there’s a definite degradation in the devout and respectful dress at Church after Vatican II. I suspect that when one wears a chapel veil, there might be a reminder of where you are and how you are to ‘behave’. As a culture, we have become far more ‘casual’ and there’s a downside to that. My husband sees it at the workplace as well … when men used to wear a shirt and tie, there was a certain professional attitude that simply has disappeared with the allowance of dress-down. So, I have not made a specific decision on the veil for me personally yet. At some point it might be worth trying it to see if I ‘feel’ any differently. I suspect not, quite honestly. But, if some women feel this way then by all means wear it!
I could say so much more, (surprised?) but I’ll leave it at this for now.
Blessings .. Jen

By: gsk

gsk — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:39:35 +0000

Excellent assessment. I am delighted to have found your site and will peruse it at leisure. So heartening to see chivalry lived so heroically — bless you!